Speak of Love
The other night after Bible study, Rebekah called me her favourite. You know how she does that. Anyway I happened to think about it this time, and it occurred to me that this was a veiled way of voicing appreciation for another person. It's hard to just be talking to someone and come out and say, "I like you," without feeling dumb or sounding silly. It's easier with a group, and especially with the interweb between us I have no problem saying that I love you guys very much. (cue the Full House 'aaawww')
It's easy to state 'feelings' factually. From a distance it's easy to say that we like someone. In person it's harder, not only because they might react, but because being around them reminds us of why we like them so much.
Prayer can be very similar. Generalized well-wishing and vague, even clichéd prayers roll off the tongue of anyone with a little practice. Praying for what you really feel, what's heavy on your heart, that can be harder. Hopefully we've learned to trust Jesus better than we trust humans to understand us, but it can still be difficult... and more meaningful.
Prayer, that word which encompasses the entire process of communication with God. All by its lonesome, it could probably be the subject of as many classes as are about communication between humans. What is it really for? Surely God knows all; the Bible at times describes Him in human terms but overall it seems clear that He is never swayed nor is His opinion changed.
Mostly I'm interested in what you guys think. I know there are a whole lot of ideas about prayer floating around. Some things to consider are the place prayer puts us in. Thanking God can remind us to be grateful. Praising Him can remind us how great He really is. Inviting him can remind us that He's here, with us and within us, all the time. Seeking His will can remind us to listen and help us remember what we already know. Bringing our requests reminds us to do what we can to see those requests filled... and that when they're not, God is still in control.
There's also another old theory I had. I'll try and blow the dust off for you. It's also a little cold and mathematical, but obviously even if true, it would be but one tiny fraction of the whole picture of prayer. The real world is nowhere near so cut-and-dry.
Three scenarios:
One - God performs a miracle, a supernatural occurrence of some kind which affects only one person... and nobody knows why, or even notices.
Two - One person prays for this miracle off-handedly, and his request is granted! He's happy.
Three - Fifty people pray fervently and passionately for this miracle, and when it is granted, all of them celebrate and praise God together, the story spreads and people who hear it are amazed.
In which scenario is God most glorified, which one really brings the most good into the world? The good effect of any worldly 'miracle' in itself pales in comparison to the strengthening of faith in Jesus which actually saves souls. When something matters to us, what can prayer do? Surely we cannot change God. Yet through prayer, perhaps we can change ourselves, change the world itself, to make a positive response more valuable...
Even if true, this is probably one of the smallest reasons to pray.
*sigh* I wish I would pray more...
It's easy to state 'feelings' factually. From a distance it's easy to say that we like someone. In person it's harder, not only because they might react, but because being around them reminds us of why we like them so much.
Prayer can be very similar. Generalized well-wishing and vague, even clichéd prayers roll off the tongue of anyone with a little practice. Praying for what you really feel, what's heavy on your heart, that can be harder. Hopefully we've learned to trust Jesus better than we trust humans to understand us, but it can still be difficult... and more meaningful.
Prayer, that word which encompasses the entire process of communication with God. All by its lonesome, it could probably be the subject of as many classes as are about communication between humans. What is it really for? Surely God knows all; the Bible at times describes Him in human terms but overall it seems clear that He is never swayed nor is His opinion changed.
Mostly I'm interested in what you guys think. I know there are a whole lot of ideas about prayer floating around. Some things to consider are the place prayer puts us in. Thanking God can remind us to be grateful. Praising Him can remind us how great He really is. Inviting him can remind us that He's here, with us and within us, all the time. Seeking His will can remind us to listen and help us remember what we already know. Bringing our requests reminds us to do what we can to see those requests filled... and that when they're not, God is still in control.
There's also another old theory I had. I'll try and blow the dust off for you. It's also a little cold and mathematical, but obviously even if true, it would be but one tiny fraction of the whole picture of prayer. The real world is nowhere near so cut-and-dry.
Three scenarios:
One - God performs a miracle, a supernatural occurrence of some kind which affects only one person... and nobody knows why, or even notices.
Two - One person prays for this miracle off-handedly, and his request is granted! He's happy.
Three - Fifty people pray fervently and passionately for this miracle, and when it is granted, all of them celebrate and praise God together, the story spreads and people who hear it are amazed.
In which scenario is God most glorified, which one really brings the most good into the world? The good effect of any worldly 'miracle' in itself pales in comparison to the strengthening of faith in Jesus which actually saves souls. When something matters to us, what can prayer do? Surely we cannot change God. Yet through prayer, perhaps we can change ourselves, change the world itself, to make a positive response more valuable...
Even if true, this is probably one of the smallest reasons to pray.
*sigh* I wish I would pray more...
posted by Tom | 10:40 p.m.
10 Comments:
it's odd though, how often in the old testament they bartered with God - almost like they were wearing him down...Moses comes to mind, as does Gideon and Abraham. how does this play in?
good thoughts here, thomas.
Hmmmm, goodness of thought.
I've been thinking a lot about this issue of prayer myself. Not all this will connect directly to what you've said; some will, regretably, overlap.
I think my problems with prayer come from something I see again and again in the Church (as a whole, not ours per se): that of the single definition. We often focus on one aspect of an idea and make that the definition. We often fail to grasp the nuances of an idea and reduce it to a single, monotone version. I see pray as one of those things. Prayer, as Tom points out, is about thanksgiving, supplication, praise, enlightment, self-imporvement, guidance. Prayer is so much more than asking God for stuff. It's bringing our concerns and fears to Him; it's asking for wisdom and insight; it's opening ourselves up to God's revelations.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
couldn't we delete him?
I agree, Mike.
we do think of prayer, of God, of many things, too narrowly - it's hard to think about the hugeness of these ideas...but when we limit them to something we can understand, control, explain, we're limiting our own growth - I think.
another idea that I find comforting: in times when my heart is troubled or confused - when even I don't really know why or what's going on with me, the Holy Spirit is interceding for me...
Romans 8:
26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.
27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.
but really, Thomas, what do you think about the old testament attitude of changing God's mind - bargaining him down...as relates to 'surely we cannot change God'
Okay, I deleted the spambot comment (and, as it makes no sense without the spambot context, Tom's post). I also activated the word verification function.
No whining about having to type in the letters!
Well, I'm not Thomas, but I'll chime in: Yes, the OT has several examples of God seemingly changing his mind following the petitions of his children. Not surprisingly, this doesn't get mentioned in many sermons.
It reminds me of something my friend Tony said: Saying "God cannot" is non-sensical. God can.
oh, that wasn't meant to be exclusive...just that it was tom's original point so I was curious what he would say to it.
in this case it's an 'us' statement, not a 'God' statement. surely WE cannot change God.
with which I happen to agree...
I like what you said up there Mike. Trying to put our spirituality into boxes is often as pointless as trying to define God.
Bartering. I have paid special attention to this aspect as I've been going through the OT this year. Some things I've noted:
Specificially, Abraham didn't change God's mind. He still destroyed the city... the conversation could be construed as a justification for God's use of extreme wrath measures...
God always seems to be threatening horrible judgement on the Israelites in the Old Testament, but most of the really awful-sounding, poetic curses don't actually come to pass. I've learned through this not to read everything God promises in the ways of blessings and curses as ironclad contracts which He must fulfill regardless of circumstances. Certainly not in the Old Testament, at any rate.
Actually, I find this rather to fly in the face of the many people who claim over and over to know exactly how God will judge people and who is all going to hell...
There are plenty of examples in the OT of mortals apperaring to bargain with God. This could be seen as poetic license, a way for God to communicate without direct action... or, and again I don't hang my faith on this theory or anything, God could be playing a little good cop bad cop with us here on earth.
The laws of honesty don't necessarily apply to God. It could be argued that dishonesty is wrong for us due to the fact we can't predict the result with the perfect accuracy of an omniscient God.
Telling a lie, attempting to decieve, is an attempt to manipulate others. We might mean well, but for us here on earth it's wrong for the same reason killing is wrong: we can't fully predict the result. We don't have the right to choose when life should end or when the truth should be hidden. That would be us trying to take the future into our own hands. On the other hand, God is Lord of the truth as much as he is Lord of life and death and the future.
I say again, I'm not convinced of this as fact. Just something to think about. It could also be noted that any Biblical characters lie in the Old Testament, and it's often not described as evil or wrong.
Hmm, so nobody's going to call me on that, eh? I guess I have to call myself, then: it's bunk. Bad idea. There are aspects to our communication we can't possibly understand, but God isn't a liar.
As it pertains to curses, all the really awful ones pretty much did come to pass right around the fall of Jerusalem as recorded in Jeremiah and especially Lamentations.
sorry tom...umm...quickly coming up with something to 'call him' with: oh jesus said, "i am the way the truth and the life"
so if he's all truth and stuff, then he can't be a liar... no no.
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